How do we help a homosexual recognize that they have an unfulfilled need for Jesus?
- Good question, but it makes some assumptions right off that the bat, one being that someone with a same-sex attraction cannot know Christ and still struggle in that area. Another is that we (I'm assuming by that this person meant Christians) are responsible to point out people's needs instead of letting them realize on their own that they have a need. When we talk more about brokenness and sin than we do about wholeness and life, we have very little to offer the world and people who are struggling. Let's offer hope, love and peace and see if people who don't already have that might start realizing it for themselves without us needing to help point it out.
If someone is a believer and homosexual, do you just let God deal with them? We do our best to build up others [who are] in sin (porn, gambling, drinking, etc) How do you build up someone when the sin is so personal to them?
- I'm still convinced that God's kindness is what leads people to repentance (Romans 4:4). So when we show kindness by treating someone as a person instead of just a problem, God begins to work. God will deal with people (us included) whether we get involved or not so again, the question probably shouldn't be so much about what "we" can "do" as about what we're doing - in other words, are we actively seeking a deeper relationship with Christ and listening for the guidance of the Holy Spirit for what we should do and when we should do it?
You say you "forgive" our sins, and we can be "whole" by turning to Jesus because we are "broken". WE are NOT broken, we didn't choose to love someone of the same sex. We don't yell out you're wrong for whatever reason. We accept that you say homosexuality is a sin, but we don't choose who we love.
- What I said is that we are all broken and we all would be better off if Christians started offering wholeness instead of constantly pointing out brokenness. I'm honestly not questioning who somebody chooses (or doesn't choose) to love because I can't and shouldn't make it my business to change that. I'm more interested in people finding wholeness and life the way God has designed it. Sexual brokenness comes in many forms, adultery, porn, homosexuality, sexual immorality of all kinds - and loving those sins and being drawn to them doesn't legitimize them. God's design for sexual wholeness is either remaining chaste / inactive / celibate or in the confines of a marriage covenant between one man and one woman. You may not choose who you love (feelings) but we all can choose how we express our love (behavior). Temptation (feelings) isn't a sin, but participation (behavior) indicates our brokenness and reaffirms our need for wholeness.
I'll share some more later. I know there will most likely be comments and I welcome them, but please be careful of your tone.
7 comments:
Hey Jason, I first of all want to say "yes!" and thank you for addressing this issue and doing so in an honest, real way that isn't ignoring the issue or simply shouting condemnation. I do believe a discussion, rather than a lecture, is needed on this issue. You say "Another is that we (I'm assuming by that this person meant Christians) are responsible to point out people's needs instead of letting them realize on their own that they have a need." In other words, people are to know that they are sinners, and we simply offer hope. Yet in the Scripture we see the apostles (and Christ) blatantly making people aware of their need. Check out Acts 8:20-23 for a specific example. I think HOW we do that is a big issue - and kindness (as you mentioned is needed). But I think it is wrong to assume that most people will want to repent without someone exposing their sin.
But overall.. great stuff man! Keep up the discussion.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment Matt, and I totally hear what you're saying. I struggled with saying it right and obviously didn't because of the question. What I'd like to say is more that the end point of our discussions shouldn't be that people agree or understand that they are sinners. The desired end point is that people would be "connected to the vine" so to speak and so connected to Christ. If that's the goal, of course at some point the fact that sin keeps people disconnected will have to be addressed, but too often the goal is that people would simply recognize their sin and we don't give them any help or hope to do something about it.
So you're totally right, we can't assume that people will want to repent without their sin being exposed, we also can't rightly assume that just because sin is exposed people will want to repent. Tough balance, but worth the effort.
The service on Sunday was very good and very powerful. Amy and I thought it showed a great view of the bible and presented in a different way than we have normally heard when talking about this subject.
So my question is: Would you allow someone who openly admits they are homosexual and struggling (God is working in them) to be in ministry? Listening to the message and everything we have learned this is a sin like any other sin and we all struggle with some kind of sin (weather disobeying some of man's laws, lust, gossip, or whatever sin you may be dealing with). So I guess my point is say if you have sin and still struggle with things, is there any difference is someone openly struggling with homosexuality and wanting to be on the ministry team?
Hope you understand my question, I thought the message was very good, and just thought I would throw something out for discussion.
Derick Shipley
re: jason's comment
Well said!
Dang Derick! What a question...
Good question Shipley. I might need some clarification on what exactly a person is struggling with. Is it repeated homosexual behavior or constant homosexual temptation? In other words are they openly homosexual in their attraction or in their behavioral choices? Attraction, fine, I wouldn't have a problem because they were struggling to overcome and keep themselves from moving into the behavior (James 1:13-15) - something all of us struggle with in some area. If on the other hand they were only struggling to control their behavior and not addressing the deeper issue of the heart and it's desires, I'd have a harder time and probably wouldn't have them leading ministry teams.
If a person had a problem with stealing, I would not put them in charge of the purse (although Jesus did).
If they had a problem with cursing, kinda hard to give them a microphone (although I would love to hear what the fisherman disciples talked like).
WWJD used to be an easy term to push us towards excellence. Although, a careful examination of Jesus and what he did do is kinda....unnerving. I am just glad that we have the Holy Spirit guiding us and the examples of Jesus doing unconventional things when we are challenged by others.
Two cents spent,
James
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